The Miracle of EQ, or "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love my LCD2C Again"

audeze
eq

#61

Tons of filters and sorry to say I don’t know much about filtering yet

I wasn’t sure what you meant by the fat Pro.

Unless those are new, I thought mine was the best Dac they made, unless there’s been another one since then.

Mine are Dual ES9038pro Flagship DAC DSD


#62

Sorry just my way of saying that it’s the top of the line in the SABRE Dac chips at the moment. At least as far as I know. Also I have the Topping D50 Dac with the cut down version of the 9038 chip inside. It doesn’t have as many bells and whistles as yours does. As far as the filter situation is it’s certain that I know less than you in that regard.

My Dac has seven filters on it but as I say I know little about them. I know a guy who does though @Torq :slightly_smiling_face:. I am sure we can all pick it up and learn from each other. I’ve tried looking up the different filters online but there isn’t much around regarding my specific Dac. I am sure that if I persevere I will find something.

-Paul-


#63

another crazy old guy talking to himself

. . . mumble . . . yeah I know this is supposed to be a headphone forum . . . read this stuff over twice now including going to the mini DSP E.A.R.S web pages. [[stuffing 3 peppercorn kettle style potato chips into face to facilitate thought]] . . . But I’ve been thinking SPEAKERS in my future, and that mini DSP site talks about using DSP for time alignment. I wonder what the Wilson Audio site says hmmm I like all their girls, Sasha, Sabrina, Yvette, Alexia, even though they are more expensive than any girl I knew in college thinking wistfully, except perhaps for the Brazilian I also passed on…

— Moment of clarity follows —
I direct your attention to Section 2 of the Sabrina Manual. Wilson Audio is famous for exquisite time-alignment, and they frequently have the dealers come out and do setup for you at your home. Few, if any high end audio goes in for much DSP EQ these days, it was a fad 10 years ago. Maybe because room acoustics are more complex than headphones.
— Moment of clarity ends, and chaotic ramblings resume —

yeah sure. . . are those chips gone already? Where’s my beer, and when do we get paid? . . . nah, well that’s partly connected to 200 Motels, I’m dating myself again. well, if these kids haven’t seen 200 Motels, they can durn well google it and look for themselves. It would do them some good… wheeze, sputter


#64

No need to be sorry. I was not aware there was another 9038

I like the idea of messing around with filters. I don’t have a clue about and maybe Ian may a chance some to teach us. God knows he does all that he does. He’s such a gift to our community.


#65

Wilson manage time-alignment between their drivers based on the relative physical positioning of them (front-to-back) on their respective baffles/enclosures, combined with accounting for the (minuscule) intra-driver delays intrinsic to any passive crossover.

This is one reason why Wilson speakers don’t have bi-wiring bindings. For their design to work they need a single point of input into the crossover. And in that model, all that really matters is that you have a fat enough gauge wire feeding them from your amp(s).


#66

Very true. While I have not spent the time and effort to audition a lot of high end speakers, I find I generally prefer electrostatic and planar designs. Wilson is the major exception to that rule. I’ve heard a number of their speakers up into the $70k per pair range, and they share a remarkable family resemblance. I’m assuming it’s the time-alignment management that they do. Their sound is just exceptionally realistic, and never boxy. Soundstage is always very good - admittedly I have heard them when properly set up - and when closing the eyes, you can locate the instruments and vocals, but not the speakers.

I have not heard this from $10K-30k Focal, Macintosh, Sonus-Faber or B&W speakers, even though they also had their merits, and were all audibly superior to my present aging Rectilinears.

With bi-wired and bi-amplification there is also the need to carefully match power input. I am not confident that it’s easy to do over a range of volumes. DSP may have an edge here, and I know that speakers designed to be used with full time DSP all have direct wiring from each driver set to their respective power sources. I’ve not had a chance to hear the result.

Heinlein asserted that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Wilson has achieved expensive marvels using analog methods. I don’t know if the DSP method is able to produce magic yet, or how much time and expense it takes.

I’m willing to listen and keep an open mind and open ears.


#67

My latest EQ, which sounds great when driving the LCD2C from my LG V20 via Magni 3.

image

  • Filter at 30 Hz warms up the sound and makes the mids a tad less forward.
  • Filter at 828 Hz gets rid of the weird overemphasis in that region (some associate this with a bit of a plasticky sound)
  • Filter at 1500 Hz adds a little clarity
  • Filter at 4294 Hz fills in the big hole in the presence region (though not completely, as keeping a dip there helps maintain the open character of the LCD2C’s sound)
  • Remaining filters boost dips in the treble to both smooth it out and get rid of the LCD2C’s natural darkness

At this moment, with these settings, the LCD2C is keeping the HD58X from getting much head time. I’ve listened to my whole test playlist and it all sounds great. The HD58X is very nice, and perhaps even still a tad more “real” sounding, but the LCD2C does things down low that I’ve not heard matched by any other headphones.


#68

Gosh! One of these days if I live long enough, I might get a handle on some of these filter aspects. I have a Matrix X-Sabre Pro Dac loaded with filters and haven’t a clue what to do with them. I think probably starting with the manual and then experimenting would the best way to get started.

It seems like with equalization for those who do results in hearing the way they want. Also it seems like it corrects problems that don’t have to be there.

Oh well nothing beats diving into the deep end. The Destination is the Journey so getting older tells me.

:thinking:


#69

Just saw a very interesting video about the use of minimum and linear phase EQ in music production. Of course it’s not very directly applicable to EQ’ing whole recordings since the video focuses on the effects of applying EQ to individual tracks and how that interacts with other tracks due to phase shifts. Still, a fun watch.


#70

It’s funny, but no matter how many times I keep trying to make the LCD2C totally “neutral”, I keep coming back to something like these settings. For giggles, I got rid of the treble bumps and just left the sub-bass boost, fixing the honk at 828 and filling in the dip in the presence region, and the result is something that basically still sounds like an LCD2C, just “fixed”. I like it, a lot!


#71

I just bought these cans, burning them in…I have Roon which has Audeze dsp presets…anyone tried them?


#72

Yes. The Reveal/Roon dsp presets make an audible difference but they’re quite subtle.


#73

I know this is not what you’ve been discussing but I think that Audeze implements EQ and DSP really well in their products. It worked a treat when I had the iSine 20 iem. I did get them when they first came out and without the Cipher cable they sounded not so great. I know that Audeze did eventually bring out the EQ settings of the Cipher cable.

Just trying to say in a roundabout way, I dig the Cipher and it’s here to stay.

Sorry about that last bit. Now where’s my medication.:grin:


#74

i was talking to my snotty, elitist audiophile friend on this (he once had a 70k home stereo system…thinks his op is the be all and end all…annoying to no end. ialso mentioned the schiit loki that was well reviewed by steve guttenberg on cnet.
his reply
''DSP is for suckers looking for an easy solution.
News flash………….there is no easy fix.
The problems with equalizers aka DSP is it will fix one frequency and mess up a bunch of others.
A few years back a friend of my friend Vince whom you met invested over $10K in high end room correction gear from a company called Lyndorf.
His system was okay but it did not sound natural.Know why?Too much room correction.’’


#75

What surprised me is that, given how the subtle the plot deviations are, how much of a difference in terms of listening that either the Roon or the Audeze Reveal settings on the LCD-4 yield.

Without the EQ applied, I find I listen to a pretty limited set of genres with the LCD-4. With it, I’ll use them with almost everything. I’ll have to measure before/after with the LCD-4 settings and see if they are as subtle as those for the LCD-2 (etc).


#76

What was his solution then?

If it’s the “gear matching as a tone control” approach, then that’s even more haphazard than using proper EQ (especially in the digital domain) - and usually only yields very subtle results that have just as many unwanted deviations as desired ones.

The gross aspects of room correction are really best done by modifying the room’s problem spots, and then using DSP to do the stuff that you can’t do reliably (or affordably/aesthetically unobtrusively) with acoustic treatments.


#77

I think once I’m done with the HD820 I need to play with the LCD series of headphones…I haven’t really spent any quality time with them, and I’ve always wanted a set, but never had a good spot for them.

Random thought/interjection done you fine folks may continue with your conversation…“doing the lords work” lol…(not religious, but this phrase seemed appropriate) :wink:


#78

i have actually sent his snotty reply to kef UK (i have their kef ls50w which has room correction DSP settings), Schiit (as i’d sent to him a review of the tone control LOKI by steve guttenberg), and also to Audeze.

his overall reply was to use dsp sparingly for home audio and cans…he refs a ps audio article, below, but read the comments: there are just as many in favour of dsp as there are not so much.

''Don’t forget what I told you.

Be very careful with filters and DSPs. Same with bass and treble and tone controls.

DSP is not a new concept , back in the 80’s it was called an EQ.

This is why you NEVER find tone controls on audiophile equipment.

Too much DSP and equalization will make the sound “sterile” and fatiguing. Much like listening to studio monitor headphones.

Here is a better perspective:

_ _

https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/equalizing-the-room/

|\|148x160|Equalizing the room | PS Audio

Equalizing the room Join Our Community Subscribe to Paul’s Posts. December 10, 2017 by Paul McGowan. Our rooms are like double-edged swords. We can’t live without them yet they are often our biggest nightmare.

www.psaudio.com|
| — | — |

_ _

All I can tell you from experience is I have heard very high end room correction gear (Lyndorf).

_ _

This gear is heads and shoulders better than the free DSP shit companies give away.

_ _

It just does not sound natural.

_ _

You are better off investing in room correction via bass traps and sound traps.


#79

Well we are all on different paths and everyone has an opinion kind, of like we all have arseholes :wink:

What works for one, won’t work for another.

Another great saying “one persons treasure, is another persons trash” doesn’t mean either is wrong or right.

There is no one solution for any one person, nor will many solutions be the solutions to the many…after all we are all unique snowflakes that need unique solutions to fit our individualism

its early and my Confucius period is on the wane… :slight_smile:


#80

I too would like to try some Audeze over ear headphones with a view to perhaps getting a set in the future. The LCD3 and LCD4 get lots of love mind you so do the majority of their lineup. When I had dealings with Audeze customer support they were extremely supportive and the whole experience makes me want to do business with them again. First class company.