Schiit Audio

schiit

#121

I always want to hear positives and negatives from a wide variety of sources. ASR is often critical of Schiit, but Schiit also has a legion of online fans.

My personal listening experience with products that have appeared on ASR: strong agreement about Schiit and solid-state amps, but strong disagreement about tube amps. ASR is not a reliable source for listening tests, but the charts often provide strong clues about why a particular product sounds different or “better” or “worse.”


#122

Putting personality dislikes aside… If it hadn’t been shown by industry experts that his methods are questionable (objectionable, actually) and the results inaccurate and unreliable, I too would use ASR as a source for further information about products. But bad data leads to bad conclusions 'about why a particular product sounds different or “better” or “worse.” ’

I can sense this is a touchy subject, so I’ll just end off there.


#123

Amir and ASR has been known to be a controversial subject on many occasions, especially when it comes to Schiit. We don’t mind if people post his stuff and discuss his measurements, as long as the discussion between everyone can be civil. Audio is a wide-reaching and subjective hobby and people approach it from many different ways. Whether you’re into budget IEMs, Chi-Fi, Mid-Fi, measurements, speakers, summit-fi, ear test, blind test and so and so forth there is no wrong way to approach audio as long as you respect the way others treat the hobby.

I’m not a huge end-all-be-all measurements guy myself but I can respect what measurement websites do for the industry, good or bad.

Coming back to Schiit as a topic, has anyone tried the Audeze LCD-2 (or 3 or 4) with the Schiit line-up? I see Audeze recommends their amps and DACs in their FAQ section and I don’t personally have any experience with Schiit products so I am wondering how well they pair together?


#124

It was a combination of, first, the HiFiMan HE-500, and then shortly thereafter, the LCD-2.2c (circa 2012, pre-fazor) with a Schiit Lyr and an original AKM4399 equipped Bifrost (no USB), that brought me back to “on purpose” headphone listening.

Prior to that it was something I only did if I had to.

And back then the Lyr was the only really cost-effective way to drive the new wave of power-hungry planar-magnetic designs properly.

Excepting the LCD-X, and the recent 4z and MX4 models, I’ve found that Audeze’s products respond well to having lots of (possibly “excess”) power on tap - especially the LCD-4. Which is something that the Schiit amps seem to do very well at - be it a Jotunheim, one of the Lyr series or the Ragnarok. I can’t think of anything, at least until pretty recently, that offered the necessary grunt and didn’t cost a packet to get there.


#125

Not a touchy subject for me, genuinely interesting.

Interesting. Where can I learn more?


#126

Magni 3 used to be my main amp for the LCD2C. I preferred it to the Ember II. I prefer the JDS Labs Atom to both. In each case my preference is mostly driven by improved noise/distortion, which is only an issue for me because I use a lot of negative pregain for EQ and replay gain.


#127

I’m perplexed by this, as many of the ASR charts are effectively identical to vendor charts or charts from other sites. Is this commentary about ASR itself or Amir’s personality and ASR’s reputation in some circles?


#128

I am using Schiit Mjolnir2 with LCD-X in one my setups. No complaints - sounds great. My LCD-X came with both balanced and single ended cables. Been using the single ended one. I’m also a Roon user, so I really like taking advantage of the Audeze DSP presets in Roon. Makes it sound fantastic.


#129

https://superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/asr-amir-borked-measurements.5786/#post-190184

Start there. Form your own opinion. Have fun


#130

Thanks! Quoting a response from Schiit on the SBAF thread:

In the case of the Jotunheim, we checked current stock and found no grounding problems–and, in addition, we went ahead and put a 100% grounding test into production, just in case. The test covers Jotunheim, Lyr 3, and some upcoming products that will be using the same Penn Engineering pin-and-keyhole-slot top mounting system.

I find that encouraging.


#131

…and yet ASR still seems to find grounding issues… I really don’t care for measurebating too much (no offense, I do find it fascinating, but more in a that is a cool thing and move on kind of way). I prefer to base things off how “my” ears for taking in the waves of sound :wink: but… every time I go to ASR I do tend to find it a lil too “fanatical” and “worshippy” at the alter of “amir” which puts me off on sites like that, I even have a hard time going to SBAF and Head-fi due to varying degrees of the clicky nature and not being a part of the community.

I think one of the final straws for me against ASR was the hissy fit thrown in regards to the Monoprice THX 788 DAC/amp combo, it was just very childish and not very professional. I know for me it isn’t my type of place on the internet that I like to go (I still check it out here and there, but more as a morbid curiosity than anything else).

I also after looking into measuring tools and talking with different folks think that they are good for general purpose but aren’t end all be all…for instance, the HD800/HD700 have some measurement flaws, but I find them to be both two of my favorite headphones.

At the end of the day though, who cares what one group thinks about something, just so long as they don’t push that agenda on me then fine, let them live in their corner of the internet. If they would like to talk about it, they shouldn’t/we shouldn’t talk in absolutes especially in the audio world, where there are so many factors that are different for each individual.

Also some people just like to watch the world burn, or be praised and liked, and will do anything to maintain that…people do some crazy things to maintain that level of dedication.

At least our slice of the internet here is one that allows a welcoming open and helpful discussion :smile: let’s keep that up, it is something special and should be nourished.


#132

I do kinda have to agree with everything you’ve said @DarthPool. I too find it an interesting site for just a bit of a look but it does get ‘fanatical’ at times as do other sites. Like you, I say live and let live. But if I end up being for want of a better word ‘scared’ to post a comment for fear of ridicule, then it’s not worth my effort. Long live free speech though. I don’t know much much about the site but it does bring out rather polarising views. I say good luck and wish him the best. But as always with the Internet always be aware of everyone and everything because there are more often than not a lot of hidden agendas. Not saying that’s the case here but I always try to keep what little wits I have about me at all times. :grin:


#133

Yeah, that’s never cool. Thankfully we don’t have that problem here :slight_smile:

I’ve been spending a fair amount of time on AudioScienceReview lately and find that, like most places, it’s a mix of people. Some are welcoming and genuinely interested in learning, and some are prickly and set in their ways. I find it an interesting crowd because it includes some active posters who work professionally in audio production as well as some who approach audio from a speakers-first perspective rather than being headphone focused, which exposes me to new ideas. The speakers crowd is interesting because, despite the avowed focus on objectivism, I see lots of recommendations about some very expensive speakers without any supporting measurements :slight_smile:

Regarding potential bias against Schiit, I’ll say there’s definitely some dog-piling going on, which I find particularly noticeable in the context of the Modi 3. That unit measured extremely well, looks good and is priced very affordably, not to mention includes U.S.-based warranty service, yet I see relatively few people recommending it on that forum vs something like the oft-recommended Topping DX3, which by contrast has garnered a fair number of posts about random shutdowns, clicking noises and other things that I would personally consider unacceptable, not to mention that you need to ship it to China for warranty service.

Anyway, as long as we keep having fun that’s what matters to me!


#134

I too agree. That there are some great guys on there as well. And very knowledgeable. I just feel that I am getting too old to be dealing with Fanboys of any ilk, no matter where they reside. I know it’s unavoidable but it’s part of any hobby no matter how bloody annoying it is.:grin:. In that regard ASR is no different from nearly all the places I have frequented.

Perhaps the sad part of all this is that unless you’re pretty well clued up on all the technical ins and outs of all the charts and measurements you pretty much have to take it at face value. I don’t know half as much as some guys who frequent these technical sites. I haven’t a good grounding in audio science or electrical engineering like some. So it’s very hard to pick out the bones of truth. So I shall just throw myself at the mercy of @Torq and other helpful souls yourself included when I require educating on certain matters. I do try reading up on things but sometimes you guys explain it a little better.:+1:


#135

@pwjazz and

I look at ASR as flawed but better than what came before. One person uses the same hardware, software, (and very roughly) the same method to test a wide variety of equipment. Some of it is mainstream with known specs and published tests at different sites. A noise floor is a noise floor, output power is output power… So, ASR’s methods can be evaluated through comparisons against other sources.

What makes ASR interesting is that it’s a collection point (i.e., one guy, one set of tools) for a wide variety of undocumented, uncommon, or obsolete hardware. The evidence for known products (listed at other sites) provides a good starting point for the unknowns.

Some audio vendors are notoriously avoidant of charts, measurement, and objectivity. These include both good products that don’t test well for one reason or another, and snake oil salesmen. In the past people had to either pay $$$ to try it out or trust the word of an advertiser driven publication (Never a Negative Review).

ASR is controversial because it offers very blunt negative conclusions about expensive gear. Anyone who just bought or enjoys a poorly reviewed product would understandably feel upset. Amir has made it hard on himself with a harsh tone (788 review @DarthPool), casual dismissals of personal preferences (e.g., many tube amps), and absolute statements. But, his test rig is pretty conventional – take it for what it is, compare the data to other sources, and decide for yourself.


#136

Not to keep at this too much longer, but that wasn’t a review, it was more along the lines of a reaction. Kind of like that kid who when you beat them at a video game they throw their controller and start screaming, and punching things…

But I can appreciate the idea of a repository of data, but like @prfallon69 said I just don’t have the desire/time to learn or understand everything to do with measurements of audio gear. I tend to learn things enough to understand it generally then if I don’t use it regularly it gets put on the back shelf of priorities.

Also, we are all the protagonist to our own stories, something everyone should remember/appreciate by slowing down and looking at things from as many perspectives as possible.

Life is too short to be narrow minded, too many cool experiences to be had so little time. everyone has something’s they are narrow minded about, it is recognizing that and trying things outside your comfort zone that is the hard part. Think more like that food you will never try…maybe one day try it lol


#137

I have an LCD 2-Rev 2 that I use with a Schiit Bifrost Uber connected to a Schiit Lyr2 with 1966 NOS Telefunkins. The LYR2 is loaded with power and does a great job with the Audeze. I’d say it’s almost as good (90%) with the LCD2 as my Burson Soloist, which is saying a lot because the LCD2/Soloist combination is one of the all time best in amplified headphones. The Schiit likewise does a great job with my HE560 and MrSpeakers Alpha Prime, both of which require big, big power to sound their best. For the same reason, my other orthos also pair well with the LYR2, especially the OPPO PM1 and MrSpeakers Mad Dog. Beyer T1 sounds good with it too. When new I think the LYR2 had more power than just about anything on the market–6.0W into 32 ohms. Mine is more than 5 years old and has never missed a beat…it’s true what Jason Stoddard says about their gear being built to last and pass down to your kids.


#138

At the end of the day though, who cares what one group thinks about something, just so long as they don’t push that agenda on me then fine, let them live in their corner of the internet. If they would like to talk about it, they shouldn’t/we shouldn’t talk in absolutes especially in the audio world, where there are so many factors that are different for each individual.

I have a few different hobbies (cars, watches, audio) with active forums, and where I get annoyed (some might say enraged :thinking:) is when fanboyism transforms opinions/recommendations into absolutism into religion - this seems to be due to a desire to feel one is doing things “right” and everyone else just isn’t clued in.

One of the top 3 reasons for a forum should be the best place for the latest and most accurate information about our hobby. For me that means, we should all hold each other accountable to what’s fact, what’s a conclusion from a fact pattern, and what’s an opinion.

Far too often on all of these sites we get opinions justified by data elevated to fact, when that data is simply just one part of an overall fact pattern. Oh, and people usually ignore other inconvenient data. Then someone comes along and asks for the “right” answer, and they’re given an opinion presented as a fact, they spread that around, and pretty soon we have false narratives and myths.

My point is, there’s enough confusion in the World already - we don’t need to spread more of it, so I do think we have a duty to do what we can to challenge the FUD-spreaders.

Anyway, luckily none of that here yet! Let’s keep it that way! :raised_hands:


#139

A closely related affliction is the desire to know if X is better than Y. A lot of audio forums seem almost singleminded in their dedication to comparing various pieces of equipment to definitely establish which is the best. Here we’ve managed to largely avoid that affliction, not because we avoid comparing stuff but because we approach it from the humble perspective of “I personally prefer X over Y” as opposed to the more aggressive “X is better than Y”.

Is a Ferrari better than a Porsche? Who cares, they’re both things of beauty and meant to be enjoyed rather than being critiqued to death.

I’m reminded of a Susan Sontag quote I heard recently:

Interpretation is the revenge of the intellect upon art.

Seems fitting somehow.


#140

Art/thing of beauty

I want this car so very bad, been pinning after it since I was a wee lad! Lol